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If you read news on the Internet, there is very little chance that you would have missed this article about an Israeli couple being fined for kissing in the middle of their Hindu wedding ceremony. Why, even Christian weddings don’t involve kissing in many countries such as India, Papua New Guinea and many others.
It is very ignorant and even arrogant of many westerners to think that all their cultural idiosyncracies will be tolerated in alien lands. And why do they expect that immigrants to the West should integrate, and not vice versa? I searched for India, and got to these blogs by westerners where they attribute lack of public kisssing to…
Dave Gudeman seems to have watched many Indian movies, and still wonders
“when we will start to see articles about how sexually repressed the people of India are and how it causes all sorts of cultural maladies?”
Well, we only know very well about reverse sexual repression in the West – the pressure to have a girlfriend/boyfriend, the shame of being a virgin at 20…
“I noticed right away that in India the concept of multiculturalism obviously doesn’t wash. I wonder what our xenophilous social engineers would make of this cultural exclusivity?”
Hello, multiculturalism does not include indecent behaviour in the middle of voluntarily performing an Indian rite.
However, a sensible Totoro has this to say in the comments
“Actually even in traditional church weddings, u need permission from the pastor before you can kiss – “You may kiss the brideâ€. If the pastor was reading scripture and the couple start kissing, is also a bit rude rite…”
But the tipping point is this one. Arnold Kane describes himself as “Arnold Kane, who shall remain nameless, is the winner of many writing awards.”
I guess India hasn’t culturally progressed much since independence and if kissing is a punishable offense – imagine what they’d do to anyone giving a hickey?
Most Indian women don’t have to worry about being kissed since they look worse than the camels.
On the other hand, has the West not culturally regressed – truly, PDA is not very pleasant! What’s your say?
Hi Amit,
Thanks for taking time to comment and for the encouraging words!
Do drop by again.
Jai Hind!
The line you quoted from me was taken out of context. I think there is much to admire about the way Indians do things. That line was not criticizing Indians, it was criticizing the Westerners who worry about sexual repression.
There are people in America who blame conservative morality and “sexual repression” in America for all kinds of problems, but they don’t care about the conservative morality of other countries that are more conservative. My comment was just to point out this double standard.
These people think that when Hindus or Muslims or Budhists are morally conservative, then that’s just fine, but when Christians are morally conservative then it causes divorces and rapes and murders and all sort of bad things. It is evidence that these people don’t really blame conservative morality, they just hate Christians.
The sad thing is that this strategy for attacking Christians is so big now that it will probably spill over into India and change your culture as well. I’m sorry about that.
And as to that guy who compared Indian women to camels, he has probably never seen an Indian woman. Most of the Indian women I know are really cute. And all women are beautiful when they wear the traditional Indian dresses.
Hi Dave,
Thanks for dropping by and for the clarification, though I will leave it for others to interpret from your words. But you certainly have a good word for Indians, and more so for the women!
Sexual repression is indeed a sad thing, and while I don’t blame conservative people, I think that conservative people do not have any right to interfere in other people’s matters – I’m very sorry, but that is what happens very often in America.
And Hindus used to be very open about sex – if you went to any ancient Hindu temple, you would see abundant sexual pictorization, and it was a Hindu scholar who wrote the Kamasutra. But the decline in sexual openness of the Hindus/Indians is a mystery to me.
And if you didn’t know, transgendered people have a very long history in India.
Jen says: Hi All
I am Jennifer. I am an American who had lived in Chennai for two years about 5 years ago. I have some comments to share. REcently a famous actress in Tamil Nadu (Kushboo) was forced into silence after making remarks about premarital sex. For more on that see..
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=82756&pn=1
THere is also an interesting blog.
http://nimbupani.com/2005/10/01/indian_morality.php
I have to admit as an American it took me time to understand the restriction of public affection between females and males. I had excepted this before leaving India and do to this day. I think it is a good rule in the sense once you let the cat out of the bag people can take it to the extreme (like in US…) ANyhow It is good that people talk about these things.
One thing I would like to say is that I think people are in such an uproar about the Kushboo thing, which in turn initiated the ‘morality police’ in Chennai, simply because they are afraid to face the facts. I am not saying that certian behaviors are rampant (In Chennai) but as a college student (the only American among only Chennaites and few out of staters), I heard the stories of girls leaving the hostel, going to discos, having sex (fear of pregnancy), and high paid call girls in inner city colleges. It happens, people appear afraid to accept it. WIll they accept it only once it really becomes a problem? Does repressing the people to extreme measures (no wearing of western clothes at college, sitting under trees in public with opposite sex, etc) really force people who are attracted to each other away? Exactly the opposite! (Mostly) THe more force you have against something, the more people want to try it and the more they become ‘actors.’
I think a healthy dialogue is ready in 2006 for Chennaiites and Tamilians all over. Talk, yes people hesitate, feel embarassed, get upset, even angry, but without dialogue how will you know what is really happening and a really good way of keeping on the up and up in your cultural sense?
Hi All ( specially Jen),
Its nice to hear that after spending some time in south india, you do have some insight of indian cultural aspect. But, the issue of india is so diverse that even as an indian we dont understand india that easily !! If you ever visit West India ( bombay), you wll find that hugging, quick smooching, or even a glimpse of passionate kissing(sometime)here and there. Now, Bombay society is also very conservative society, but what is relevant in bombay is not relavent in Chennai or someplace. At the same time, even in the Capital of India, New Delhi, you dont find couples kissing in full view of public, though the society is more open vis a vis bombay or chennai or calcutta.
We have to understand the social level of acceptance, social upbringing, education and childhood exposure, all goes hand in hand to make a man what he is ! Now in india, a person from western europe or US shouldnot expect to find the same level of response from public as compared to US. A neo generation (like me ) person, can accept the fact that i want to kiss my girlfriend right now, wherever i am , but my previous generation will never accept the same !! And i feel that loving someone doesnt entail you to kiss, hold butt, or do something in full view of someone who might not like the whole idea ! I am not avert to the idea, but what a guy can do in Dallas TX, cant do in New Delhi !!! and at the same time the type of human cooperation and gratitude he will get in New delhi is unheard of in Dallas ! And we cant equate or put it in the same palate !! I have seen people making love in cars in public places in western europe, where the entire population is 1/10 of India, where people have liberties and other resources to think of, unlike India where a human being is governed to an extent with social ethos and do’s and dont’s. There are positive sides, and a negative side as well. Its more like two side of a same coin….please dont equate or compare….no one cant i believe..!!!
Hi Jen – Your experiences in Chennai colleges of girls secretly enjoying discos and sex is very true; only the situation has changed slightly in that more of them are becoming more open about it now. Though of course there’s still a high degree of secrecy which is not surprising considering Indian society.
But people do talk about social issues to a great extent in India. While public display of affection is discouraged (thankfully!), there is a great amount of daily discussion on social and political issues. Kushboo was caught on the wrong foot because she made one/two allegations that certain people did not take well.
Hi Amit – yeah, the differences and degrees of social acceptance certainly vary in different cities and villages of India as you point out. That is surprising and not-so at the same time because most of the social aspects of living in different parts of India are similar with some minor differences.
Rob says: Yes – Its interesting you focus on this non kissing issue in your country, yet you fail to address the fact that:- Between 1991 and 2001, the number of girls per 1,000 boys aged six or younger in India decreased, from 945 to 927.
This Sex-selective abortion and infanticide practise in India – is certainly going to cause major issues in the future of India. Obviously your outdated dowry system encourages this.
Why do you blame the west for your country’s ills when this outright relegation of women in india to 2nd class citizens is plain for the rest of the world to see!
malavika says: Hey Rob, the female infanticide and wife sharing( well there are no more girls) and dowry deaths reflect our glorious and ancient religion which barbarians like thee won’t understand. After kicking out the christians, we are going to bring back sati, the purdah and child marriage. If you don’t like it, you are a racist hater. Thankyou.
indian says: im an indian.
hey MALAVIKA if u think that practice like sati is good and u want it to regain strength in india then i must say that u r a bloody idiot. it is becoz of bastard people like u that india is still a developing(backward) country. if ‘brain drain’ exists in india it is becoz the brilliant intelligent people find it difficult 2 live among illiterate idiotic conservative people like u(who form a majority of indian population)…..
indian says: MALAVIKA u said u like a dastardly practice like sati
this makes me want 2 kill your father and throw your mother in fireand probably then u may know the meaning of sati…..
Aham: I am – Hinduism TriTiya: Queer Indians (LGBT)
Hi,
Excellent remarks dude….carry on…these hypocrites of the west tends to think India and Indians as looser…wheras after living abroad for so many years i am damn sure that actually the western so called Yuppies are the one who are actually the greatest loosers of all…..They dont even mind there MOTHER getting screwed by other men….they called it liberation…ha ha ha ..!!LONG LIVE INDIA……We love you